One of the first things I will do when picking up any sort of interest - Stoicism in this case, but others as well - is to look for a book (well, really books) on the subject. This reflects a lifelong practice and first reaction of "Need to know something or do something? Get a book".
Over the years, the way I have gone about doing this sort of research has changed. Originally, I would go to the library to borrow books. This worked quite well when I was younger through high school and college (Pre-InterWeb of course) and even to some extent for my graduate degree. Where it fell down was as I continued to push into more esoteric areas: simply put, the libraries no longer had the knowledge that I needed. And so - even more than before - I began to buy books.
The books I buy and have bought have changed over the years as well for these sorts of exercises. Originally I purchased what I would call "narratives" or surveys, books that would take (in this case) a piece of history and give an overview of it. Over time, this books became less of use for two reasons: the first was that as one continues to press into a subject, one finds that people are generally writing the same thing in just a slightly different way (and sometimes quoting each other); the other is that writers are no different than any of the rest of us and tend to put their own interpretations into history instead of letting history speak for itself. And so more and more, I have begun purchasing the original source material whenever I can.
The books are less common and thus - as less common - tend to be more expensive; for example, the current books I tend to purchase for any Classical studies will be the dual language editions of Loeb Classical Library (Green for Greek, Red for Latin - I have written about some purchase of Isocrates and the reading of Columella). They have the original words of the authors and the words alone with occasional footnotes. Instead of reading about what the authors of the past have written, I can read their words directly. To be fair, there are other versions of the same: I like the dual language versions for the potential practice it can give me (I have a little Latin and even less Greek, but it good to have something to train on).
Of the existing writings we have of the Stoics, they are only of the later period: Seneca, Epictetus, Marcus Aurelius. Seneca I have at least one work of and Aurelius I own Meditations - some day it will make sense to pick up more of both but for now, I am fine. This leaves Epictetus, which Loeb conveniently has in two volumes, the (apparently) coveted 1925 translation. One problem: the second book on The Borg is around $25, which is in line with the cost of the book these days. The first book clocks in at $67.00.
I love books. But that is a bit steep.
So I wandered over to Alibris. The price was better there - still a bit high at $33 - but they had both books and they both had dust covers (yes, I am that person: I prefer my hardbacks with dust covers. Unripped if possible). Still, I dithered and dithered - with shipping that was going to be a chunk of money.
And then, of course, fuel went up over the weekend. That settled it: I ordered both.
One could make the argument - a pretty strong one - that this knowledge can be acquired other ways. And it can. But for something like this, I really need to understand what the originators of the philosophy believed and wrote on, not what other people think that they wrote. And for me, at least, such things are investments in knowledge: unlike an article or post, they will always be there when I need them for the refresher or the research.
And, they simply make me happy.
"When I have a little money, I buy books.; and if I have any left, I buy food and clothes." - Desiderius Erasmus
I think my boss practices this quite a bit. Rather than asking for help when accomplishing tasks, he does not ask him employees for help, rather taking the time to do it himself. He has repaired roof leaks in the past, numerous plumbing / electrical repair and installations, usually off time to reduce phone call interuptions.
ReplyDeleteHis weekends have plenty of scratches from evident yard work and construction tasks. He doesn't complain and when we have same evidence of outside work, will ask what we did for the weekend.
He was raised during the later Great Depression, and often had subsistence hunting fishing along a river. Had he proverbial one building K-12 grade school too.
He doesn't complain about getting his hands dirty. I respect for that - he has employees that could do that, but he chooses to do it himself, only asking for help when too heavy or too many tasks to do.
Anonymous - Thanks for sharing. It is interesting that as I am starting to write and think about this, the thoughts of what Stoicism is seems to cover a great amount of ground.
DeleteCertainly a thread that I have read seems to be - as you suggest -simplicity and a non-reliance on others when possible, which is somewhat odd given that two of its greatest proponents, Seneca and Marcus Aurelius, were rather rich men.
Your comment about respect also interests me - there is, it seems, a general sense of respect for someone that tries to do something or actually does something for themselves, even if their outcome is not quite as "good" as a professional.
My local library has become a tax burden for me and nothing more. They cater to those who want to surf the internet, check out music or movies, or read romance, western, and assorted pulp fiction. The non-fiction section is miniscule and if they do get in a desired title, the waiting list is six months out. So like you, I mostly buy books these days which works out since most of the time I am gifted gift cards for places that sell books online.
ReplyDeleteI usually try to find something in depth that gets good reviews. I figure if it is too in depth, it is easier to skip sections than to buy another book because the first one didn't go deep enough for my liking. I usually also start with one because sometimes, one is enough for me. Other times, like my desire to read a biography on every American president, I like to space them out and don't want to have a huge stack waiting to read.
It is interesting Ed. We have a library in our HOA that is actually as well stocked as any library locally.
DeleteIn terms of the public library of our city, I cannot think of the last time I have been there. They instituted a policy that if you are not "in the city limits", it was not free anymore but a rather princely sum of money (even though we do pay the county taxes).
Typically my rule of reviews is that if has received 85% of 4 and 5 stars, it is likely a good buy. That said, sometimes I buy ones that do not have many reviews at all (Loeb Classics often fall into this arena; not a huge market).
Ed, having volunteered at our local library for 6 years and still work our twice a year book sale. But every year we have old books donated on what for most being obscure figures in history or subjects that are not of interest to most. It should be a treasure trove for people and occasionally we have someone come in and is thrilled to find a hidden gem in their interest. Always check out library book sales. But if you want a book that isn't one that only you will read ask the library to order it for you. Usually more than willing to so. Also most have a genealogy dept. The movies bring them in but it also opens them to books. Borrow a movie with/about a person and they say, we have a bio or autobio on them. Would you like it. But a company buys everything left and pulps them down.
DeleteGL, I have never been to a library book sale. Sounds like something I should look into.
DeleteOccasionally I have delved into the world of out of print books and used the website mentioned and others to obtain a copy. What a world we live in when I can find a book fairly easily shipped right to my door in usually a week that would have been impossible in the pre-internet era without years of rummaging through thousands of used book stores.
ReplyDeleteEd, when I was growing up our small town had a single bookstore, then two, then a used bookstore. The "big" bookstore was in the big city. Now, we literally have the libraries of the world at our fingertips for less than what it likely cost back in the day.
DeleteIt will take a dedicated deep dive, TB. I tried, but the books and ancient authors didn't cut it for me because their voices and intents petered out over two thousand years of time. It is much like the bible - you can read it as a stand alone book by yourself - but with no reliable outside instruction you lose at least 75% of the significance of it, and the doings of the players often won't make sense to a modern man living in modern times with modern references and values.
ReplyDeleteIn exasperation I went on to the Stoic forums and chat boards on the internet but they often devolved into idiots putting on airs of intellectualism and sophistication fighting with each other about minute points of it ... the way some modern biblical scholars do from time to time. For a noob trying to get the context of it... it became rather pointless. In your boots, I would try to find a modern scholar of acceptable provenance to assist with your studies.
It will Glen - after all, from what I understand the movement somewhat "dried up" after Marcus Aurelius and the growth of Christianity. At least we do not have any major works in the genre after that time (to be fair, depending on how one views Aureilus' son Commodus, it may have simply been a question of "That did not work out well, did it?"?).
DeleteTo your point about Ancient Authors and their voices - that is why I think it matters to read not just the authors, but others that wrote in the period and the history of the period. Although we apparently have little of Zeno of Citium's writings, knowing that the philosophy appeared in the era of the Diadachoi (the Successors of Alexander) is helpful - like understanding that Socrates emerged from the era of Post-Periclean and Peloponnesian War Athens or Seneca lived in Post Augustan Roman and was the teacher of a emperor that eventually killed him. Tacitus in The Annals Of Imperial Rome gives us a sense of what life was like in that era; one can sense in Seneca the desire to retreat from his life even as he knew he could not.
Your experience on the forums is exactly why I want to avoid them. It is almost as bad, I suspect, as the commoditization of Stoicism, just as with bushido: people arguing over things they think they understand but they really do not. I suspect the way to ease into a reliable scholar is start doing some reading online; if they work, maybe buy a book or two.
That all brought up cans of worms for me too. I don't know half of those guys like you... but when I saw names like that I would ask questions about them. One wank would say, "Seneca is a quack!" and another one would say he was right about everything he said. So it went for the other voices of the period and so many rabbit holes opened up - I just got overwhelmed and lost. I was not dedicated enough to read through the endless books and contradicting opinions that were brought up. A guy with your background might be better equipped to dive into that one than I - and I wish you the best of luck.
DeleteGlen, that is one reason I try and read the original materials. They are sometimes no better than current thought in terms of their opinions, but at least they were writing closer to the time in question and overall had less people to "opine" about them. Also, I find (for myself at least) it is better if I just let the original authors speak for themselves.
DeleteI wonder - to your point - if what we are actually talking about these days is more "neo-stoicism", the stoics themselves having passed on.
Ye gods - that's another can of worms! There are splinter sects now too! :)
DeleteGlen, research is a never ending well of fascinating side paths...
DeleteIf you are looking for scholars, try a YouTube search for "stoicism." I didn't click on any of them, but I had plenty to choose from.
ReplyDeleteWarren, if my Instaphoto feed is any indication, Stoicism is quite the popular thing right now - based on that, I am not really surprised there are a great many YouTube videos. Thank you for looking!
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