Conflict makes me uncomfortable. I sincerely dislike people being angry at each other, let alone actually yelling at each other, and have been known to leave a room - which is a fancy word for flee - when things get to a disagreement, let alone an actual argument. I am so anti-conflict that when people ask The Ravishing Mrs. TB how I argue, she replies "I have no idea. He never argues."
I am not really sure why. Perhaps it has something to do with my relationship with TB The Elder growing up - our relationship over the past years is not what it was once upon a time; it is only in the last 10 years I have appreciated how he came to be who he was. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that I am really that Introvert that every personality test on the face of the planet tells me I am (Truly. Do not let this blog fool you. In any social situation, I will be voted "Most Likely Not To Say Anything", and Runner Up in "Most Likely To Try To Escape As Soon As Possible". I like the concept of people in the abstract not necessarily people in the actual present reality, except those well known and even then in small doses.).
As a result, this last week has been tough.
Tough, because I actually have feelings and reactions to ongoing events. Tough, because the ongoing events are ones that a great many people (including myself) have strong reactions to. And it it not that they are trivial events, nor that they are not worthy of discussion. Underlying them are some of the most critical underpinnings of civilization and society.
But controversy is tough. And responding in a way that is actually building towards solutions instead of result in creating sides that lead nowhere is even tougher.
The reality is that if we are going find solutions to the significant issues that face us - and they are significant - it is neither going to be by (verbally) firing upon against our potential allies nor by passively standing off and picking away in a method that never accomplishes anything except to create a punditry that is always opinionated but never action oriented.
Allies are important. Allies are people that may not agree with us 100% of the time on all things, but may agree with us 80% of the time. I can start with 80%.
Ideological purity is a great idea in theory. When put into practice, it scarcely works out. Can you change a thing by having a dedicated core? Certainly. Can such a thing be maintained? Possibly - but it is just a likely to fall apart because things that are not accepted will not be adopted.
So I am not really sure what I am asking for today. Maybe forgiveness, if by my writings I have offended. Maybe a thought for building alliances where we may not be in total agreement because 80% of the way is better than 0% of the way.
Above all, of course, a plea to remain kind. Kindness is the one thing that people will remember, long after the actual point of discussion is forgotten. Kindness of action may indeed be the thing that convinces someone to at least consider a view where forceful argument will not.
To wit - and not original to me - "People may forget what you did or what your said, but they will never forget how you made them feel".
Hmmmmm. Allies are like wine for me. 80% fine wine is ruined by 5% worth of sewage.
ReplyDeleteIt staggers the bloody imagination: we live in an age where acceptance and tolerance and inclusiveness is mandated by law… and now we are always at each other’s throats. The people that preach that are often the ones driving the discord and dissention.
There are some fights worth fighting, O Mighty Warrior Poet. Sewage in my wine, for one.
Glen, agreed that a fine wine is ruined by sewage. At the same time, I can have a perfectly okay wine which is neither fine nor sewage laden but does the job of matching my fish or steak quite nicely.
DeleteAgreed we live in an age where these things you have mandated are in existence - but the reality is not just you and I recognize this. There are, I suspect, plenty of people that realize the other thing, probably some that do not agree with us on other things. It would already be a scandal if they were to disagree with the powers that be; to then do that and find out that the other side was not willing to at least try to reach and work with them guarantees they will take no action.
Bottom up change is always the hardest to implement but the longest lasting; you and I both know the best diet and exercise plan is the one we decide to keep ourselves, not the one forced on us. But I think we get there by building a true grass roots effort, and maybe even in fields with roots we might not otherwise go to.
My fear Glen - and it is a constant one now - that we do not become like some pundits of our philosophy and religious bent which are so trapped in their tower of "We are right" that they have become completely useless, both for actually making change as well as being beacons of philosophy and reason. They demand you completely agree with their position before they will listen to you, and their minds will not be changed.
As Ben Franklin said, We must all hang together, or we will surely hang separately.
Love you, Brother.
Muchly appreciated TB. And you are exactly right; I know I am trapped in my line of thinking and it is a real bugger sometimes trying to break free of it. Perhaps there are things that put me in this boat, besides old age and a surly disposition.
DeleteI think I shall publish it now. My paper will be entitled, "Filthie's Laws Of Retard Relativity". Consider:
Some of us live in sheltered enclaves, insulated from the reality of the day by our wealth, our faith, our communities. In these rapidly shrinking bubbles, sanity and tranquility prevail and those of us within them don't see how badly things are going outside.
In the real world, the voices bellowing in rage out there are not those of hotheads, cranks, or other eccentric and erratic retards like me. They are small business owners that lost everything, moms that lost their kids in Afghanistan, parents that have had their kids sexualized in kindergarten, Christians that have been forced by law to participate in perversion, or others that have been pushed beyond their limits by The Usual Suspects. They have had more than enough. They deserve to be heard and considered.
This is where the conflict comes. You know my family history - I went through an emotional wringer that took years to recuperate from. 5 years ago I would have seen your message as one of sanctimony and false posturing. I still struggle with it, in fact. I don't mean that as an insult against you, all this is on me and I now accept I am alone with my sentiments. Some will feel my pain, most will dismiss it and laugh... until it happens to them, I suppose.
Some of this moral relativism is completely unintentional and entirely forgiveable. Some of it is not - it is willful and deliberate and utterly contemptable in my opinion. Refusing to see the justified pain of others? Begging your pardon... but I see no honour in it.
Out of consideration to you I will give some folks the benefit of the doubt. In others? I know what their intent is, I know they will act on it, and what comes of their actions will be on them if they do it. It is entirely possible that hurt feelings will be the least of their woes as a result.
You can censor this as you will, and I will bear no hard feelings for it. I do consider you as a Brother In Arms, if you will allow it. You will get the worst of that too - I can't get my pistol our of this idiot home made holster I made... ;)
You'll get no argument from me about the importance of kindness. However,for an increasing number of people, their opinions are the only ones that matter.
ReplyDeleteI just read the comment section at a blog which focuses primarily on country life. The post described feelings about the changing seasons; as usual, most of the comments were friendly and agreeable.
Suddenly somebody started to sling insults at those who agreed that things feel different this year. Another somebody took cheap shots at Pres Trump??? Why do people feel the need to say things like that? Why not just exit the blog?
sbrgirl - Lady Locust (https://www.thelocustblossom.com/2021/08/the-elephant-in-room.html) has a very wonderful post on this very subject. And you are right, there is an increasing sense that kindness need not be exercised in all situations, especially if one is "right" - in fact, I would argue more and more people feel it need not be exercised at all; conformance is paramount.
DeleteI know the blog and blog entry that you speak of and read the same thing. It was quite uncalled for - not a regular commenter, from what I could ascertain - and was meant only to be hurtful and stir things up. I did think the responses were very good, affirmations of why it did matter and why being prepared is a good thing (and why the heck the person decided to do it in the first place).
Paul wrote of such things, people that were "full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness" (Romans 1: 29). There are people who destroy things physically for no other reason than they enjoy destroying things; I fully believe there are individuals that do the same with their words.
Perilous times indeed.
I'm familiar with the blog you're referencing, sbrgirl, and the comments that were left yesterday. All I can say is that when you put out food for the cats, you're likely to attract skunks as well. There's no reasoning with skunks... I tried yesterday and was dealt a dose of verbal vomit... I tried...
DeletePete, that is a lovely analogy and I am totally using it going forward!
DeleteThere is a phrase that I recall from a book - not sure which one - where the phrase used to describe the enemy was "reckless hate". This is what comes across in such postings, people who go out of their way to mock and criticize for no other reason than they enjoy doing so.
...Yeah, I'm locally known for those kinds of analogies... The guys at work call them "Pete-isms..." Use at will!!
DeleteThanks Pete!
DeleteI have always been someone who looked for the things I had in common with someone else and then slowly built upon that. Sometimes I might reach the 80% thresh hold but I would say that is rare. Mostly I would guess I never get beyond 50% with most. Only a few rare times have I met someone whom we could have a good discussion about something we disagreed upon. Those are the relationships I have always cherished.
ReplyDeleteEd, 80% is a made up number not statistically supported by anything other than a writer's fancy. 50% is probably more accurate. That said, you have hit the point of it exactly (as I, apparently, could not do so succinctly): the way to make progress is to find points of agreement and work from there. We will seldom be in 100% agreement, but there are things that we could agree. Let us start there and work our way outward.
DeleteMaybe in those conversations my opinions change. Maybe yours do. But at least we are still moving forward instead of endlessly yammering about an intellectual purity that not even our heartiest advocates will reach.
I used to run from conflict, too. I couldn't stand it. I traced it back to the unwinnable conflicts with dad. He was a tough nut. Better to just avoid the blow back by going along. I quit asking for permission, too, at some point, since that was another avenue for battle. But he treated me better than his dad treated him. I'm thankful for that.
ReplyDeletePresident Reagan had the same ideas of an 80% friend. This day and age hasn't treated that concept well. It seems that all of the social movement has been to the leftist utopia. Some rushing there, and others content to move more slowly. I'm sick of seeing that. There appears to be no movement towards or even acknowledgement of the individual's God given, inalienable rights to LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. What I see now is the ever worsening incarnation of "if it sticks up hammer it down." I guess it's wearing on me.
After my TBI last year, I don't fear conflict like I used to. It was a sudden, and effortless transition. And I'm still learning how to manage that change. Boy was it a big one, and it took everyone around me by surprise. Especially me.
Thanks for putting up with me.
STxAR, there is no "putting up" with you - or anyone else here. All are welcome, as long as they manage the rules of the road (which everyone does splendidly).
DeleteYou and I may have had similar experiences growing up - and yes, I believe now (knowing what I know) my father did amazingly well considering his background. But yes, I learned to go along.
Reagan did have the same ideas (thank you for reminding me!). In terms of the day and age not treating the concept well, I would agree (as my posts over the last two days illustrate, I hope). At the same time, I have over time adopted the Asian concept in terms of an instructor: when something does not go as I wish (in the case of teaching, for example, a student does not do well) the first question I have to ask myself is "Did I not do something?" I might not have of course, but it is worth asking the question.
Yes, the media and large portions of social thought are trending against Life, Liberty, and The Pursuit of Happiness. At the same time, if we are not doing everything we can to bridge where we can to potential allies, we are doing ourselves no favors.
Perhaps you saw the Antifa conference two weeks ago or so where in the midst of a press conference a young black woman breaks in and says "Y'all are the problem." Why are we not reaching out to people such as her? Even if we disagreed on other things, here was a perfect point of coming together?
In my opinion (and it is only my opinion) we shoot ourselves in the proverbial foot when we demand such philosophical and ideological purity as the basis of any conversation or shared action. As things continue to trend more and more towards a heavy handed authoritarianism, we potentially have more allies to rally to a cause of anti-authoritarianism. But we surely not get there by demanding they start by being 100% like us.
I am not arguing for sacrificing our beliefs and philosophies; far from it. What I am arguing for is deciding what we ultimately are trying to accomplish and the best means for getting there.
I am working through my conflict issues as well. I am a little braver now than I used to be.
I think it's gone beyond opinion and "feelings," TB. The people of America have hit bedrock, and won't budge from their positions, no matter what. It's not "religion." It's core values at work here. My lines are drawn on things like abortion, "gun" control, and illegal immigration. A debate with anyone on the other sides of these issues is going to go nowhere but Hades. That's where America's at... It would seem that conflict and division is inevitable.
ReplyDeleteOf course, then again, there are those internet trolls, such as the one on that other blog yesterday... Those people just live to make others miserable... I almost feel sorry for them... Almost...
Pete, you may be right - or we may be fast approaching that point. And, as you so correctly point out, once bedrock is reached, there are few other options.
DeleteAnd yes, there are people that seem to revel making things unhappy for others for not other reason than the like to do it. I do wish we could endeavor more to ignore them and not feed their insatiable need for attention and disruption.
And it's your blog. Post what you want. You can always begin with "I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but..."
ReplyDeleteYou all be safe and God bless, TB.
Thanks Linda. I just want people to feel comfortable to have opinions and express them and I should not be an impediment to that.
DeleteI think Patrice Lewis's post about Freelance Cows shows how to avoid a lot of unnecessary conflict.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.rural-revolution.com/2021/09/freelance-cows.html
She described a situation with a lot of ambiguity and potential conflict. But, she was aware of and patient with the the lack of information. She made only a few assumptions, all of which were kind. She waited for and talked with "the other side," and found common ground, and maybe new friends.
- Keith
Keith - That is exactly the way it is supposed to work. Rather than leap to an assumption based on an incomplete data set, she just observed to make sure the cattle were neither harming themselves nor their surroundings and in time the issue was resolved. She certainly did not leap to conclusions about why the cattle were out or make assumptions about their owners.
Delete