02 December 20XX+1
My Dear Lucilius:
Walking between houses today, interacting with our small community and checking in on the harvesting operations (which somehow seems more palatable to me than “looting”), Young Xerxes - who obviously knows that I continue to write to you – asked me if we were really done.
Done, I questioned. What did he mean by done?
Finished, he replied. Finished as a civilization.
What a remarkable question, I responded. Made even more remarkable, I thought, by the thoughts around Hope we had when we had lit the first Advent candle.
The collapse of civilizations is (sadly) not as well documented as perhaps one would wish, if one were trying to create a template or project management tool with the ability to point “You are here”. At best we have some records of some collapses as written by either those who lived through it or by those who were the “winners” in it. At worst we have a handful of documentary evidence or no documentary evidence at all, just artifacts in the ground that tell a partial story at best.
Civilizations as such have always come and gone in the world, many of them simply subsumed into a new one or disappearing without a trace except for occasional folk customs or stories. The dwellers in Ireland before the coming of the Gaels become the Fir Bolg, the Latin peoples’ that shared the Italian peninsula with Rome became cities and regions with their languages and traditions lost. We know of Mesopotamian cities by name but likely not all of them; Mesoamerica teemed with unknown cities and people groups that even up to The Collapse we were still finding out about.
The collapse of civilizations was a thing of interest in modern times; Edward Gibbons The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire was a book more acknowledged than read in recent times and even in that, was incomplete – archaeology continued to fill in many holes that were not evident in a world that in many ways predated modern archaeology. Likely most of that modern interest was “How can we help that not happen to us?” rather than a deeper interest in the nature of the collapse of civilizations.
But that, I sighed to myself, was not Young Xerxes’ question. The danger of asking questions of the old, Lucilius, is that they always seek to give all the background up front instead of answering the question at hand first.
Are we done, I responded. Done as in a civilization, or done as in us? The two are not quite the same, although I can understand why people would confuse the issues.
Civilizations, I pointed out, are vast things, built on a multitude of small traditions and habits and large systems and practices. They gain a certain inertia over time that is hard to bring to an immediate halt. And there are individuals and organizations that have a vested interest in ensuring civilizations continue, even if they are detrimental to some or many of their inhabitants.
A civilization is also something of the mind, as suggested by Alasdair MacIntyre in After Virtue, that when people stopped identifying with and trying to build the moral community of Rome and turned instead to building other models of civility and morality, Rome final died – not as a concept, but as a viable civilization. Up to the end of the 6th Century there were still those who called themselves “Roman”; after that, one hears of the idea of Rome but not its practice.
When do civilizations end? When people stop believing in them.
When the underpinnings are no longer taken as fact, when people no longer see themselves as members of that civilization, when the things that made that civilization unique are no longer regarded as worthy of fighting for or maintaining – this is when civilizations die.
We continued walking in silence, icy snow crunching in sync with the shloop of mud and splash of puddles. Finally he asked me if I still believed.
I sighed and let the silence speak for both of us.
Your Obedient Servant, Seneca
Keep the light of your strong beliefs going.
ReplyDeleteMonks did through the troubles of the Dark Ages after Rome collapsed.
Indeed, Michael. They very much believed that the Classical world was worth saving.
DeleteIf you have not read it, I might recommend The Benedict Option by Rod Dreher. He uses this idea as a jumping off point for preserving such things in the "modern" world.
Done as in us? When someone kicks in your door and loots your house even if you're there and there is no justice system to make them responsible unless YOU do it, then civilization is done. But that doesn't take into account DA's not charging people with crimes, that's a different, slow slide into a loss of civilization TB. Seneca seems to recognized that answering a question with a question is no longer optimal......:)
ReplyDeleteNylon12, one of the greatest ideas in Space Viking by H. Beam Piper (which was a great book) is that there are two kinds of civilizational collapses. The first is cataclysmic. The second is by degrees over time until one day, people wake up and find that all that they knew silently slipped away. Or a cataclysm can occur, and suddenly it is realized that there is nothing to rebuild on.
DeleteWhen is it the worst ? When the event happened, or when we finally realized the consequences of it happening.
ReplyDeleteAnon - The only similar incidents I can think are things like businesses failing and personal relationships falling apart. In those cases, it was bad and then seemed to get worse.
DeleteWe tend to give "the background up front" because we are wise enough to know very few questions can be answered simply. Life is a lot more nuanced when you have experienced a lot of it.
ReplyDeleteEd, that is a kind thought for the tendency of the experienced to give a prologue to the answer. I do wonder how the young perceive it.
DeleteMostly, they're impatient. "Just give me the bottom line, I haven't got all day!" Sheeesh...old men...
DeleteHeh heh. Likely spot on, TM.
DeleteI think the background up front is a way of clarifying the question. Young Xerxes put forth a simple question with no simple answer. Only by specifying the question we are answering can we give an answer.
ReplyDeleteRQ
Anon, that is a good point. I do find that in my work life, starting the phrase "Let me ask a qualifying question" often can explain the long lead up.
Deleteif we were really done? As in civilization is no more or is there more out there.
ReplyDeleteSo here's a scenario, tomorrow someone flying between 70 to 85k feet up drop unexpectedly into US domain and drops 3 EMP's. We are gone as a civilization instantly with very few dead for the amount of destruction. No communication devices work, no cooking or refrigeration, no banking, no gas for cars, no elevators, nothing works.
Imagine a world without sound but people screaming. And of course within hours or a day whoever did this will be invading. Do you stay or do you try to go into hiding. Or do you even have a fall back destination?
They can talk all they want about nukes but EMP's will do it all with out the destruction of bombs.
Slightly longer would be a total failure of the EBT system, a bank holiday of massive proportions and a grid failure.
DeleteCyber attacks, persistent ones as we try to run about in cyber defense fixing them.
In old times of smaller nations simply setting fire to all nearly ready to harvest grain fields and some dead bodies in the wells would do.
Dozens of possibilities.
What to do? The best we can.
1 Timothy 5:8 and many others about seeing trouble ahead and how the wise man hides from it.
Those first four are quite possible, Michael.
DeleteAnd indeed, all we can do is plan as best we can and prepare.
Anon - We are terribly dependent on technology for most of our lives. An event such as you describe would be catastrophic.
DeleteAlthough I have never read it, I believe the book "One Second After" deals with this kind of scenario.
Civilization isn't a static thing. Being civil toward one another and society at large is a learned thing. It requires being able to look outside of oneself and control one's needs and desires; to follow an agreed upon code of conduct. If a people lose that ability, perhaps through severe trauma, need, or are no longer taught self-discipline, civilization will begin to crumble. If people begin to reject the code of conduct (for example, politicized cultural conflict and an "all's fair in love an war" mentality) civilization crumbles.
ReplyDeleteI supposes the real problem is that it's difficult to recognize until after the fact. I'm doubtful anything can be done to stop it.
Leigh, civilization is - as you correctly point out - an entire way of living one's life. Yes, it includes the outward manifestations, but also those internal items such as codes of conducts and shared...well, anything.
DeleteFor non-apocalyptic collapses, I think it is very hard to recognize until things have long passed the point of no return. And once it starts collapsing, there is certainly not much individuals can do except to start building islands and refuges of civilizational knowledge - preservation, as it were.